Please Read This....

[Bump]

This is from The DAILY NEWS - a NY hometown paper...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2009/04/23/2009-04-23_giants_targeting_maryland_receiver.html

Giants targeting Maryland receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey

According to two sources familiar with the team's plans, the Giants are looking to trade up in the first round with the hopes of getting into position to draft Heyward-Bey. The 6-2, 210-pounder is one of the fastest receivers in the draft - he once ran a 4.23 in the 40-yard dash - and the Giants view him as the big-play, deep threat they so desperately need now that Plaxico Burress has been released.

They are also optimistic they can move up high enough to get him.

Those two picks, plus their first-rounder, could be enough to get the Giants as high as the 14th selection in the first round, according to the "draft pick value chart" that NFL personnel people often use.

Of course, nobody expected Crabtree to be available in the draft at this point... BUT..

Let's not forget, two other teams who needed WR's passed on Crabtree when there was NO WAY he was supposed to see him slip to 8 and 9...

Is it possible that Crabtree just MIGHT be a product of the system?

AND, is it that far fetched to think DHB passed some Maclin on some boards?

No, not at all....

But, let's not make any mistake... Giants, by any stretch of the imagination were of the train of thought DHB would slip down to them @ 29...It was NEVER going to happen

They were aggressively seeking to move UP to get him...

[Tooz72]

Always a chance with the gimmicky offense ran at Tech.....just as Utah's Gimmicky Offense failed Alex Smith terribly once he turned pro. If Crabs is smart enough with playbooks, and recognition, he should be alright, as it shouldnt be too hard for a WR to adapt vs a QB.

Seems as though some kept quiet about DHB though and their intentions......

I want to see what happens in SF though, because ever since Eddie D was ousted all the WR's they had, have either failed, underproduced, acted like prima donnas, or wanted out.

Lets see what Singletary does to this cat once shit hits the fan.

[Bump]

Seems as though some kept quiet about DHB though and their intentions......




I am glad SOMEBODY understands this.

[sraiderguy]

I did not have any problem at all with the DHB pick. It is what I expect from Al and if he can perform who really cares where he is taken at. I heard the Giants rumors flying around on the internet the night prior to the draft.

Crabtree could be the next Calvin or the next Mike Williams. Time will tell.

[Miklo]

Interesting article, thanks for this. People don't just drop for no reason; 3 teams came out and said their meetings with Crabtree did not go well, and where there's smoke there's fire. After day 1 I've thought about things, let them sink in, and I've come to terms with the fact that we drafted some high-character, hard-working guys that also fit needs. And are fast. We wanted DHB, but we couldn't trade back or the Giants would get him. We wanted Mitchell, but couldn't trade back because the Bears wanted him 2 picks later. I'm not gonna give this draft an A or anything, but not gonna give it an F either. I'd say C.

[Doyers y Esleigher]

The Giants have a defensive line and an offensive line.

[Sonny Cheeba]

^^ There is the big difference. The Giants are a championship caliber team, the Raiders are a 4 win team. They could afford to take a chance on this guy, we took a massive and unecessary risk by drafting him 7th overall when there were much better players on the board.

[Bump]

The Giants have a defensive line and an offensive line.

^^ There is the big difference. The Giants are a championship caliber team, the Raiders are a 4 win team. They could afford to take a chance on this guy, we took a massive and unecessary risk by drafting him 7th overall when there were much better players on the board.

The Giants are also a team with a defensive and offensive line who became very beatable overnight once Eli's deep threat went down.....

And that offense became very one dimensional

[Doyers y Esleigher]

Yes but the Giants can plug another quality WR in that spot and be just as effective. They did lose some productivity when Burress went down but that's going to happen to any team when a huge piece of their offense is suddenly gone. They have the pieces you need to have for long-term success: great o-line, great d-line, solid QB. We're not set at any of those positions except QB, and we don't really know if we're set there.

This is because they have great scouting and talent development, but of course, "the draft is a crap shoot," right?

[Bump]

Yes but the Giants can plug another quality WR in that spot and be just as effective. They did lose some productivity when Burress went down but that's going to happen to any team when a huge piece of their offense is suddenly gone. They have the pieces you need to have for long-term success: great o-line, great d-line, solid QB. We're not set at any of those positions except QB, and we don't really know if we're set there.

This is because they have great scouting and talent development, but of course, "the draft is a crap shoot," right?

I don't underestimate the value of a good scouting and development team. And I definitely think we needed to upgrade the interior, and exterior, of the D-Line.

The O-Line, I will give Cable the benefit of the doubt. If they feel Mario Henderson can win the LT job and keep Barnes at RT where he should be. Then I don't see why we can't let that play out for a year. I , for one, saw the line start to gel at the end of the season last year. To me, Satele is an upgrade over Grove, which is not saying much. But it is definitely the scheme he belongs in.

There is more one way to skin a cat and I dont believe you HAVE to follow another teams blueprint to success.

As far as the draft being a crap shoot... well, I wouldn't say that exactly. But how do explain when some of these great drafting front offices have busts?

I don't know, I am kind of over the whole drafting philosophy.

[East Bay King]

Crabtree has skills. However, he is a product of a division with no defense to be heard from. I also find it curious that his quarterback didn't even get drafted. Was he too much of a system guy? I'm gonna pull for underdog DHB. The best thing we could do for him is get Run DMC and Bush going.

[yayarea_raider]

Thanks for this Bump. Cable wasn't blowing smoke up our ass when saying other teams were trying to trade up to get him. Giants got Nicks though, and I see him having a better season of the rookie receiving class.

[Padrino]

If, if, if, if, if.....you could go on and on with all the hypothetical's. Bottom line is that we reached. Not once, but twice the first 2 rounds. And for good measure, we hand delivered Ron Brace to the fkn Pats. It's like Al sold his soul to Belicheck.

Curse of the tuck...

[Bump]

If, if, if, if, if.....you could go on and on with all the hypothetical's. Bottom line is that we reached. Not once, but twice the first 2 rounds. And for good measure, we hand delivered Ron Brace to the fkn Pats. It's like Al sold his soul to Belicheck.

Curse of the tuck...

Fuck Ron Brace...

Let me ask you this... Where is Ron Brace going to play in NE???

You think he will really supplant Wilfork?

They do run a 34...

Who cares, Brace is gone... And Brace would have most likely be in a rotation here too because on pass rushing situations he is a non factor.

Let's give Dwaine Board a year to see what he can do with the line... Im not stressing the line.

[Doyers y Esleigher]

Fuck Ron Brace...

Let me ask you this... Where is Ron Brace going to play in NE???

You think he will really supplant Wilfork?

They do run a 34...

Who cares, Brace is gone... And Brace would have most likely be in a rotation here too because on pass rushing situations he is a non factor.

Let's give Dwaine Board a year to see what he can do with the line... Im not stressing the line.

If anything, it just gives NE depth in the front 7 which they needed. Obviously NE didn't need to go offense in this draft...

[Raiderfunk]

Cable sold me on the pick when he talked about Heyward-Bey being the only wideout int he top 5 that had played in a pro style offense and how hard of a worker he was and his ability to learn. We also see now that he may not have been there if we traded back...we also see that the Giants were serious as they drafted Ramses Barden later on...the funny part is if the giants had picked heyward-bey everyone would be saying speed kills and all of that.

[The Man]

As far as the draft being a crap shoot... well, I wouldn't say that exactly. But how do explain when some of these great drafting front offices have busts?

I don't know, I am kind of over the whole drafting philosophy.

Agree. There is often a little too much analysis about where they could have been taken etc. I remember that Todd McShay guy going on about a player being picked a few spots too early whilst the others were talking about actual football. Herm Edwards looked at him like McShay had no idea about anything. They just sometimes forget about what it's all about, but I guess that's what the draft has become.

[Raider Ran]

Good find Bump. Very interesting article. We will see how it works out.

[mickyd]

I thought they should have taken OL or DL, but we'll see what happens - not going to get all bent out of shape....

[Padrino]

Fuck Ron Brace...

Let me ask you this... Where is Ron Brace going to play in NE???

You think he will really supplant Wilfork?

They do run a 34...

Who cares, Brace is gone... And Brace would have most likely be in a rotation here too because on pass rushing situations he is a non factor.

Let's give Dwaine Board a year to see what he can do with the line... Im not stressing the line.

That's my point! We have a glaring need at DT. Brace would have been an upgrade for us, even if it was just for running downs. Where are you going with this? Where Brace plays in NE is a mute point.

Dwaine Board is going to have about as much say in the defense as Rob Ryan did. You should know the drill on that by now...

[Raiderfunk]

That's my point! We have a glaring need at DT. Brace would have been an upgrade for us, even if it was just for running downs. Where are you going with this? Where Brace plays in NE is a mute point.

Dwaine Board is going to have about as much say in the defense as Rob Ryan did. You should know the drill on that by now...

You know..I think the whole Al Davis defence thing is a bit over-stated. How can Al Davis call every defensive play...it's not the scheme...it's the players and their coaching. We do not tackle well...players are getting there and then missing the tackle...our safeties couldn't cover and our d-line just charge straight ahead...and other than Al continually giving Ryan his seal of approval, the D coordinator is calling the plays. The defensive coordinator and d-line coach TAUGHT the seahawks to get better...not top 10 d better but much better as they were just as bad as ours when they got there.

I really think people discount competent coaching...or just how bad our coaching has been for the past 6 years....

[Padrino]

You know..I think the whole Al Davis defence thing is a bit over-stated. How can Al Davis call every defensive play...it's not the scheme...it's the players and their coaching. We do not tackle well...players are getting there and then missing the tackle...our safeties couldn't cover and our d-line just charge straight ahead...and other than Al continually giving Ryan his seal of approval, the D coordinator is calling the plays. The defensive coordinator and d-line coach TAUGHT the seahawks to get better...not top 10 d better but much better as they were just as bad as ours when they got there.

I really think people discount competent coaching...or just how bad our coaching has been for the past 6 years....

Do I think Al is calling all the plays? No. Do I think he has a large say in what is called? Yes.

Tom Cable has the right attitude for the job, but he has a lot to prove x's and o's wise. He has my full support, for now.

If Cable were to get the axe I'd like to see Gruden come back. Won't happen, but I can hope...

[Bump]

Do I think Al is calling all the plays? No. Do I think he has a large say in what is called? Yes.

Tom Cable has the right attitude for the job, but he has a lot to prove x's and o's wise. He has my full support, for now.

If Cable were to get the axe I'd like to see Gruden come back. Won't happen, but I can hope...


Gruden was a good coach but he hit his ceiling... I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even want to coach anymore.

I got nothing but love for Gruden, though. No matter how shitty he drafted.

[Raiderfunk]

Gruden was a good coach but he hit his ceiling... I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even want to coach anymore.

I got nothing but love for Gruden, though. No matter how shitty he drafted.

Just like mariucci....great post man...I felt the same thing..both those guys reached their peak. I think that's why Gruden is looking for a way to incorporate the spread into an NFL offense...in effect...changing his whole offensive philosophy.....it wil be interesting to see what he comes up with...

[Bump]

Just like mariucci....great post man...I felt the same thing..both those guys reached their peak. I think that's why Gruden is looking for a way to incorporate the spread into an NFL offense...in effect...changing his whole offensive philosophy.....it wil be interesting to see what he comes up with...

I always wondered why Gruden couldn't translate that same explosive offense in TB that he had in Oakland...

I am beginning to believe it was luck of the draw with Gannon and the chips just fell into place..

Because if you are such an offensive mind and know the exact type of personnel you want and need to make the offense work.. Why couldn't he do it?

Talent level maybe? Who knows. I know this, Gruden can't evaluate talent for shit. He brought some really weak picks into Oakland and TB.

So MAYBE, Al served Gruden alot of justice in saying "here is what I will give you to work with".

Gruden also brought up a great point with the spread offense. I always wondered why teams never incorporated it at the pro level more. Maybe he is onto something. I still think it is more gimmicky than anything and it wont stick.

We shall see...

[Raiderfunk]

Do I think Al is calling all the plays? No. Do I think he has a large say in what is called? Yes.

Tom Cable has the right attitude for the job, but he has a lot to prove x's and o's wise. He has my full support, for now.

If Cable were to get the axe I'd like to see Gruden come back. Won't happen, but I can hope...

Man..I think you nailed it actually. Just heard an interview on Sirius with Thomas Howard and dude said something to the effect that

Rob Ryan was a 3-4 guy and he may have had a problem adjusting to the 4-3 that we run here...

what? wait a freakin minute here....now I could say that they tried his 3-4 when they got here and the players revolted...and they did bitch and complain..especially warren sapp....and so that went back to the 4-3 after ryan said he would do a hybrid. So we could say that he installed the 3-4 our run defense still sucked so al made him go back to the 4-3......which may be true but the fact remains he was not allowed to install the D he wanted to run...

So now Al went out and got a 4-3 guy that believes in the 4-3 to run the D.

[Miklo]

It's extremely simple...Al says: "Hey New D Coordinator, we are going to be running a 4-3 defense, man-to-man coverage, with a deep safety and minimal blitzing. You fill in the blanks from there." Al isn't calling plays, he isn't making substitutions or whatever. He has his base D, and the D Coordinator can work from there. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think Rob Ryan didn't know how to correctly use what talent we did have here, and hopefully Marshall can figure that out.

[BigPrimo]

It's extremely simple...Al says: "Hey New D Coordinator, we are going to be running a 4-3 defense, man-to-man coverage, with a deep safety and minimal blitzing. You fill in the blanks from there." Al isn't calling plays, he isn't making substitutions or whatever. He has his base D, and the D Coordinator can work from there. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think Rob Ryan didn't know how to correctly use what talent we did have here, and hopefully Marshall can figure that out.

Funny cause everytime i looked we were ina a Soft vanilla MCdonald 89cent zone defense. I meanour corners were off by 25yrds from teh wr at times. Sorry but thats not AL's defense. GET RID OF THAT BULLSHIT i dont care whos D it is just get rid of it and play man we have the CB for it AND FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD BLITZ DAMMIT, IF OUR FRONT 4 SHOWS TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THEY ALONE CANT GENERATE A RUSH THEN DAMMIT GIVE THEM SOME HELP BY BRINGING A BLITZ FROM DIFFERENT PLACES.

[Miklo]

Funny cause everytime i looked we were ina a Soft vanilla MCdonald 89cent zone defense. I meanour corners were off by 25yrds from teh wr at times. Sorry but thats not AL's defense. GET RID OF THAT BULLSHIT i dont care whos D it is just get rid of it and play man we have the CB for it AND FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD BLITZ DAMMIT, IF OUR FRONT 4 SHOWS TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THEY ALONE CANT GENERATE A RUSH THEN DAMMIT GIVE THEM SOME HELP BY BRINGING A BLITZ FROM DIFFERENT PLACES.

That comes in the 4th quarter with the lead. And we always lose the lead in the 4th quarter. Hopefully Cable & Co. notice that profound connection I just made.